turtledovefandomcom-20200216-history
Talk:Andy (Detinan)
I don't want to be paranoid or jump all over a new user right away, but one day after we ban someone who was notorious for ignoring our prohibitions, and whose self-defense consisted entirely of saying he had information on characters from this rather obscure series to add, we get this from a new user, but formatted in such a way that suggests some familiarity with this wiki. Turtle Fan (talk) 23:40, April 28, 2019 (UTC) :Yeah, it's him. TR (talk) 01:22, April 29, 2019 (UTC) :Oh wow. ML4E (talk) 22:58, April 30, 2019 (UTC) The stub Jonathan created for this article was legitimate and had accurate, useful information. I think it should be restored. Jonathan probably lost interest in expanding it further because Andy is a colorless stock character.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 19:21, May 7, 2019 (UTC) :Jonathan was subverting a permaban. That is very serious. The merits of the stub are irrelevant. It has no right to exist. Turtle Fan (talk) 19:40, May 7, 2019 (UTC) ::Shooting the messenger much? The purpose of this wiki is to have information on each character in the series, non? Andy is an ominpresent character who should be listed here, even if he has the personality of a tree. The stub was legitimate information.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 20:01, May 7, 2019 (UTC) :::No. Work done by a banned user who is circumventing his ban must be eliminated or his punishment is undermined. :::By the way, you're under suspicion yourself, and belaboring this of all points will not help you Turtle Fan (talk) 20:23, May 7, 2019 (UTC) I would like to have this page restored so I can monkey with it and fix it up.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 08:54, May 29, 2019 (UTC) :NO!!! Turtle Fan (talk) 21:08, May 29, 2019 (UTC) Restored So Matthew has gone ahead and restored this illicit article (illicit because Jonathan created it as an anon user after we finally banned him) despite, well, everything above. I was certainly unambiguous. I wondered if TR or ML4E had walked back my hard line; I know that if they did, it would be in a collegial way, but perhaps Matthew just seized on the slightest opening. But no. With absolutely zero indication from anyone in authority that this was tolerable, and in the face of a very hard no, he recreated Jonathan's last article just because he felt like it. If he's not Jonathan himself, they're two peas in a pod. I'm going to hit him with a one-week ban right now, and given signs of his bad behavior elsewhere, I'm going to ask that TR, ML4E, and JCC consider permabanning him. Turtle Fan (talk) 02:45, June 4, 2019 (UTC) :I'm loathe to perma-ban him purely on the suspicion that he's secretly Jonathan, but this insistence on recreating a new article even when told "no" is concerning. TR (talk) 03:32, June 4, 2019 (UTC) ::Yeah, he may not be Jonathan himself; I don't really think he is anymore, though I can't be certain. But his bad behavior is quite reminiscent of Jonathan's, and I really don't want to have to deal with that anymore. Turtle Fan (talk) 19:46, June 4, 2019 (UTC) ::The refusal to accept the instruction to not recreate an article is disturbing. A one week ban is called for but only one chance before a perma-ban. Also a list I have been making: Why I Think Matthew Is Jonathan When renames a redirect, he marks the old redirect with the "Delete" template until he can find and change the articles that use it. Edits on "Sergei Yaroslavsky": *appearance = Hitler's War; through The Big Switch changed to "Hitler's War; West and East; The Big Switch" *type of appearance = Direct to Direct *" citizen of the " changed to " }}" All standard Jonathan minor edits. Created on May 1: User blog:Matthew Babe Stevenson/Minor Fictional Characters in Laura Frankos Short Stories‎ Jonathan did similar on April 27 with: User blog:JonathanMarkoff/Detinan Deities‎‎ Both to combine minor characters/deities in one article. Added ''The Hot War: Armistice series name to novel name the way Jonathan does. Added trivia on "spouse", "occupation" and WWI military service to Richard Cunningham Patterson Jr. Did not ask why Literary Allusions was locked, just started new Beatrix Potter sub-section on the Talk Page. Keen to add to disamb lists. :Good points. Shall we say that, after he returns next week, he gets permabanned at the first sign of trouble? (I'll be travelling next week, by the way, and Internet access may be spotty; but if you find it necessary to permaban him in my absence, feel free to cast two votes, one as my proxy.) Turtle Fan (talk) 22:06, June 4, 2019 (UTC) ::Another point for the list: Matthew uses p. rather than pg. for references. That was Jonathan's thing, and it was for a very small number of articles. ::On the other hand, Matthew does have a basic grasp of template building, something Jonathan never even bothered to try. That's really the one thing that continues to keep me from just dogmatically pronouncing them one and the same. ::But I agree with TF's proposed course of action. TR (talk) 17:05, June 5, 2019 (UTC) :::On Matthew using p. rather than pg., he does use pgs. for references to multiple pages. However, while p. is a valid short form, the correct form for multiple pages in that system is pp. I chastised Jonathan several times over using p. for multipage references, changing it to my preferred pgs. rather than pp. Jonathan did start to use pgs. shortly before his permaban and Matthew does the same without comment. :::I too agree With TF's proposal. I'm willing to act as though Matthew is not Jonathan but not willing to give him as many chances. ML4E (talk) 20:21, June 6, 2019 (UTC) :::Oh and on changing *" citizen of the " to the hidden template version. Given (ironically) Matthew's insistence on the importance of the specific ethnicity of the various SSRs, I think these changes should be reverted since it is important to have it explitit in the Character Template rather than hidden and used only to generate a category. ML4E (talk) 20:27, June 6, 2019 (UTC) Restorals I took the non-restoration edict to mean not restoring Jonathan's specific article, not applying to someone else rebuilding it from scratch. We're going for completism here, right? And a WBTP list is not complete without Andy. I disagree with Jonathan's need to give Andy his own page. I think he fits in MFC just fine, despite appearing in a jillion scenes. There was recently a discussion about similar characters in the Minor Fictional Human Characters in the Worldwar Tetralogy page, where they are simply there to give a POV character a "Watson" to talk to.Matthew Babe Stevenson (talk) 04:25, June 12, 2019 (UTC) :I hadn't noticed this part of your attempt to subvert Turtle Fans' intentions. Nor, to be honest, your recreation of this article as a redirect. That, I think, was your intention rather than an honest opinion on placement. Incidentally, I think Andy should get an individual article so the whole thing is presumptuous of you if not dishonest. Fortunately Turtle Fan did notice. I have reverted the addition in MFC. Do not in any way shape or form attempt anything like this again. ML4E (talk) 18:00, June 12, 2019 (UTC).